The Great Stuck Key Mystery At The West Door

We welcome May with memories of Maypoles and then turn to the church rhythms that often land this month, from Ascension Day to Pentecost. We talk with churchwarden Jim Hughes about what the job really involves, why St Peter Mancroft matters to him, and the surprisingly funny realities of keeping a historic church safe and open. 

• May traditions and what they celebrate in community life 
• Ascension Day and Pentecost timing in the church calendar 
• why annual meetings matter and how churchwardens are elected 
• what a churchwarden actually does day to day, from keys to checks 
• music, bell ringing and the draw of Mancroft’s traditions 
• security planning, Martin’s Law awareness and the “stuck key” tale 
• fire safety, evacuation practice and the organ as a fire risk 
• visitors’ perspectives, postcards, and the unforgettable font canopy 
• a Norwich scavenger hunt and what people come to discover 

Transcript

Welcome And May Memories

SPEAKER_03 0:03

Hello and welcome to the May twenty twenty-six edition of the Be More Mancroft Podcast. My name's Edward Carter. And I'm Judy Ball. And it's lovely you've joined us. Thank you for being with us. Uh May, Judy, May's come around already. And uh what what do you think of when we talk about May?

SPEAKER_01 0:20

Think about May Day and the Maypole. Yes, yes. So oh god, are you an experienced Maypole dancer? I did it once at school when I was very young. Yes, we got a bit of a muddle, I remember when we we when we tried to do it to start with, weaving in and out. Yes. But it was great fun.

SPEAKER_03 0:35

It's the one with the ribbons, isn't it? And a big pole, yeah. I do you know, I've got half a memory maybe when I was tiny at school, maybe something I'm I'm not quite sure. I did it myself, but maybe watch some people doing it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Do you know what a May pole and the ribbons are all about? No.

SPEAKER_01 0:52

I don't actually, I don't.

SPEAKER_03 0:58

Well it's obviously a celebration and um maybe it links to something to do with all the new growth and life. I don't know, yeah. The lovely green leaves on the trees, all of that. And summer time really, is the beginning of summer as well. Yes, a sort of hint of summer, yes. Not not proper summer, but on the way, absolutely.

Pentecost And Ascension Explained

SPEAKER_03 1:15

Yeah, yeah. Yes, well, May poles and um I'm not sure they're a particular church thing, but they're often obviously celebrated in the kind of community way. But May's a b an important time of year in the church life as well. Often, well, I think pretty much always the Whitson weekend, as it always used to be called. And it's it's called Pent. That's right. Pentecost is is a sort of um um another name for it, which is often used now in church.

SPEAKER_01 1:37

Yes. I remember that's because the Paschal candle days from Easter and it it extinguishes uh Pentecost, that's not just after Pentecost.

SPEAKER_03 1:45

Well, that's right. There are two different theories actually, Judy. Um yeah. No, one is uh absolutely as you say to Pentecost. Do you know how many days it is from Easter to Pentecost? I think six weeks. Sounds about right, yes, yes. I think it's I think it's fifty days, actually. Yeah. However, there's also Ascension Day, which comes after Easter, of course. And Ascension Day is just before Pentecost. Yes. Do you know how many days from Easter to Ascension Day? I'm really testing you here.

SPEAKER_01 2:11

Who you are, and I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 2:12

No, no, sorry, it's forty days. That's actually that's actually in the by in the New Testament. Forty days, yeah. So that means Ascension Day is always on a Thursday if you want to.

SPEAKER_01 2:20

Oh my god, now it's on a Thursday. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:23

So all these things, and they're they don't have to be in May, but I think they pretty much always are because of how Easter falls. Yeah, so certainly this year we've got Ascension Day and Pentecostal, which is very much yeah, yeah.

Church AGM And Wardens’ Role

SPEAKER_03 2:34

And often the other thing that happens is the the bit more down to earth, there's the church annual meeting. Which uh actually we've we're having just at the end of April this year, but often that's in early May. Yeah. And one of the things that happens at the church AGM, um and particularly the the annual vestry meeting, is that church wardens are elected. Of course. Yeah, yeah. And they don't have to be good at dancing the Maypole. They just have to be well, they're always fantastic people.

SPEAKER_01 3:00

They do a lot of work.

SPEAKER_03 3:00

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we've got two amazing church wardens. So I caught up with one of them, Jim, the other day. I thought we might listen to my chat with him now. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:08

Yeah, I'd like to listen to that.

Meet Jim Hughes In The Sacristy

SPEAKER_03 3:10

I'm here at the church today, and I'm in a uh a space called the Upper Sacristy, which is a room that's behind where the high altar is at the church. It's a fantastic working space. And I'm here with you, Jim. Um Jim Hughes is one of uh the church wardens here. Jim, great to see you today. Hello, nice to be fit. Yeah. Hi. It's good good that you're here. This is a great space to work in, actually, isn't it? The vergers use it a lot. Indeed, yes, I do too.

SPEAKER_00 3:34

Yes, yes, you're here a lot.

SPEAKER_03 3:35

You're here a lot. And you're one of the two church wardens here at St. Peter Mancroft, um, Rachel Hobson's the other. I think you've been church warden for three years pretty much now. Three years, yeah, yeah, yeah. Halfway through now. Halfway through, yes, because it's six years, six-year term normally. I mean, it is an annual election, but it's it's it's normally a six-year term. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, um a church warden, what exactly does a

What A Church Warden Does

SPEAKER_03 3:56

church warden do?

SPEAKER_04 3:57

Well, I've got a book at home that I had when I was originally a church warden about twenty years ago.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

Right.

SPEAKER_04 4:03

Uh a bit out of date now. But it says the duties of the church warden originally were to transact all parish business.

SPEAKER_03 4:10

Sounds good.

SPEAKER_04 4:11

Be trustees of the church goods, excellent, and guardians of parochial morals.

SPEAKER_03 4:16

Oh, wow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:19

I've been Googling uh recently uh to see if I can get any ducking stalls off Amazon or Yes, of course, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_03 4:25

Uh put put people in the stocks. That's right, yes. Fantastic. Well, I'm sure you've never put anyone in the stocks in reality. But that no, uh that that's lovely actually, because it is sort of um speaks to what a church is about. What you know, how a church is part of a community, I suppose. Indeed, yeah, yes. Yeah. But I mean day to day, what what does it actually mean to be to be a church warden? You don't get a a car and a chauffeur, obviously, but you know So what what does that actually mean?

SPEAKER_04 4:50

Well, it's sort of just keeping an eye on what's happening in the church, you know, seeing that it's opening day, seeing that the electricity works, seeing that the plumbing works, um uh basically, and making sure that all all the checks and health and safety uh stuff is up to date.

SPEAKER_03 5:09

Yeah, um yeah. So it's good practical stuff, and I guess quite a lot of people stuff as well. Um there's a huge number of people involved here at Mancroft.

SPEAKER_04 5:16

Oh yeah, we have a lot of welcomers, we have a lot of uh size people and deputy wardens, and you know, it's p part of the part of the i job is supporting all those people in what they do.

SPEAKER_03 5:28

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well I know I would like to add that supporting the vicar is another part of it which is massively appreciated. Um it's fantastic. You you and Rachel are are a great church warden team. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh

Music Traditions And Bell Ringing

SPEAKER_03 5:40

good. So um so what's what's special about uh St. Peter Mancroft in in your mind? We know why do you really like like the church here and ha and have offered to volunteer in such an important role?

SPEAKER_04 5:50

Well, what originally uh got me coming here uh when we first moved to Norfolk was bell ringing. Because that's one of my uh my big my big lifelong hobbies.

SPEAKER_03 6:00

Um and everything spiraled from there. Yeah. Well it's really good actually, speaking again as a vicar, but uh it's great to know that you are a a bell of a fantastic, keen bell ringer, but much involved in the town. And also church warden, because that's great to have that that connection across, actually. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Great. So bell ringing and then um and then actually of course you're involved with you I think you can you can play the organ to cover things.

SPEAKER_04 6:23

Well, so part of part of the the thing about Mancroft was the the musical tradition as well.

SPEAKER_03 6:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 6:28

Um you know that's all that's all a draw. And I think that's that's what sort of draws people to the church, the the way we do things, the way things are run.

SPEAKER_03 6:38

Yeah. No, that's really good, yeah. And what's what can you think of a sort of quirky thing that perhaps you know, as part of being church warden, anything a bit bit unusual or slight maybe amusing even that some has has sort of come along and uh and caught you off guard perhaps as church warden? Maybe something in the churchyard or I don't know, something about the building that was unexpected that you you discovered? 'Cause 'cause church wardens traditionally are given a great armful of keys, aren't they, when when they start. Yeah. Was there a key that you've used and thought, well goodness me?

SPEAKER_04 7:06

Well, in fact, uh just recently we've been having to think about protecting the church if there was a terrorist attack. Oh

Terror Risk Planning And Stuck Key

SPEAKER_04 7:14

good. Um it's it's called Par Martin's Law was passed uh a year or two ago, which uh and every church has to be aware of that and to give some training to the staff on how to how to react if there's a terrorist attack. And I was thinking our our west door is is our a vulnerable door because it's the only door that needs locking with a key. Um and normally the key's nowhere near the back door. So I was I was just looking. We have a b a large key that hasn't been used for oh, I don't know, fifty, sixty, seventy, eighty years. And I thought if we can use that key and chain it to the door somewhere, it'll be fine. So I put it in the in the door the other day and and it works perfectly. So the only trouble is I can't get it out. Oh right. So it's stuck there. So it is actually performing the way I thought it should do, without even having to have a chain.

SPEAKER_03 8:08

Yes. Because actually you you're right, most of the external doors you just kind of use latches inside and you don't need a key if you're inside. Obviously, you can't get in from the outside, yeah. Yeah, good, good. Now look, the other one of the other things is sort of fire

Fire Drill Story And Lessons

SPEAKER_03 8:20

safety, of course. I know you've done a bit of work on that. And I'm there was a fire practice, wasn't there, on a Sunday morning, yeah, quite recently. How how did that go? Went very well.

SPEAKER_04 8:28

Yes, yes. Um uh it went so well that a couple of people who went through the door said, Yes, I thought I could smell something burning.

SPEAKER_00 8:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:37

Fantastic, isn't it? Real. You weren't pumping something into the air.

SPEAKER_03 8:42

Yeah. Well, because I was taking the service that Sunday and um the the the voluntary started. Remind me remind me what the volunteer was.

SPEAKER_04 8:49

It was the finale to the Royal Fireworks.

SPEAKER_03 8:50

Yes. Well obviously fireworks are bound to cause a fire, aren't they? Anyway, up it struck and and then it stopped. And you uh you were up in the Orgaloft and you started shouting fire, fire! Fire, fire, yes. Yes, yes. So um we were all very calm and uh we all evacuated. Pretty we did pretty well really. Three minutes and twenty-three seconds. Three minutes and twenty-three seconds, yeah. Well that's quicker than running a marathon anyway. Fantastic. And everyone was quite safe, and so that's good. Uh well and it's a good actually being serious for a second, it was a good reminder that um there are many different aspects to to being a church and all the people involved, of course, and the life of the church, making sure everyone's kept safe, but actually uh uh ultimately, you know, that it's uh an uplifting place to be. It's obviously reflecting God's presence as a spiritual place, and hopefully a fantastic contribution to the community life and city centre life, particularly. So, yeah, I mean being a church morden is kind of all a part of that, really, isn't it? Yeah, because it's technically you you represent the people of the parish. You're you're kind of elected by them. Um which which is a really important thing, that link between community and church. Jim, well, thank you so much. It's good good to chat with you. And um I'm I can I'm absolutely delighted that you're one of our church wardens. I know everyone is um hats off to you for fantastic what you do, and it's great to catch up with you today. Thank you.

Back In Studio The West Doors

SPEAKER_01 10:10

That was good to hear, Jim. And I love the story about the key that's kind of stuck in the door, but at least it's doing its job.

SPEAKER_03 10:18

Yes, um, actually, when he was a little bit sheepish when uh he said come and look come and look at everybody and then took me to the West Doors. Lovely big wooden doors. I know. Of course, you only have to go back perhaps ten years or so, and the those doors were often shut because the the glass doors, which Paul and Hester King very kindly donated uh money for, they were only installed I think it perhaps was a dozen years ago now. Probably. Yeah, yeah. And they're we're so used to them now, it's wonderful. But um the the the big wooden doors are the original doors, and they're normally I mean they can be locked, but um but often they're just sort of propped open. Right. Yeah. But having a new key in them s a sort of emergency exit key, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so Jim took me over to the doors and uh said, Oh look at this key, doesn't it? And it works. But then you just and he said, I can't get it out. I said, Oh, I'm sure I can and I tried and tried and I couldn't. So yeah. And we haven't tried WD forty yet, but you know.

SPEAKER_01 11:10

Ah, right. And the other thing we you were talking about was you were talking about fire safety.

SPEAKER_03 11:15

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 11:16

And I w had I had been to eight o'clock service that morning, but I live streamed at ten o'clock. Oh yes, yeah. And of course I thought, Oh, I heard this fire. I thought, oh my goodness. What's happening? So I was watching it all and it all looked very organized. Yeah. And very nobody seemed to panic. No, and it all went extremely well, didn't it? Were you were you on the edge of your seat? I was watching because I yes, because I thought it was genuine fire. Yeah. And I thought, oh my gosh, where did that happen? How did that happen? Perhaps we can add a few flickering flames to those to the live stream next time.

SPEAKER_03 11:47

Yeah, that would be good. Yeah, well, I mean it was a good thing to practice because uh actually the good thing about churches is that they're not very prone to to fire starting quickly and getting out of control, you know. But apparently all it is organs that cause there are so many electrics in them nowadays.

SPEAKER_01 12:03

Oh, is it really?

SPEAKER_03 12:04

And that they are one of the main fire hazards, yeah. But lots of stone and you know it's a fire wouldn't take hold very quickly. Anyway, no fire, and we will say oh obviously there'll be flickering flames of the heavy spirit on but um Pentecost. Um that's a that's a different thing, yeah, yeah. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, no, I was reassured um that um Jim Matefi did a fire practice. Yeah, it was excellent.

Fire Safety And Organ Hazards

SPEAKER_03 12:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:28

Well we get uh you know, I mean quite a lot of people at the service, and then of course you've got all the physicists that come during the week when he I mean it could happen then, couldn't it? We get some of the people visiting.

SPEAKER_03 12:38

Yeah, that's right, yes. Yeah, all these people who need their par par parish morals.

SPEAKER_01 12:42

Yeah, yeah, that was that was fascinating. I thought, hmm, that's something a bit different.

SPEAKER_03 12:48

I wonder if they sell ducking stools on Amazon. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 12:52

I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 12:53

Yeah, I can't Jim's far too nice to do that to anyone, yeah. Yeah, well I mean of course, in a way that's part of what the church should be for a community.

SPEAKER_00 13:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:01

Just help us all think about ways we can live life well. Uh in an upright way, yeah. Yeah.

Visitor Interview Postcards And Font

SPEAKER_03 13:07

Well you mentioned about visitors and uh actually I bumped into a lovely gentleman the other day at the church and he was really interested in in in everything at Mancroft and I I recorded a tiny interview with him, so I thought I'd play that now.

SPEAKER_01 13:19

Oh right, okay.

SPEAKER_03 13:21

Well, I'm actually here in the church and just met someone who's visiting from London, but you've delighted you've picked up a postcard. I think it's the story of a friend you always send a postcard to, is there?

SPEAKER_02 13:30

Indeed so. There are so few churches now which actually produce postcards. Okay. And so we now have uh whenever we see one, postcards, which apparently are very cheap compared with the thing that goes in the front with Prince Charles's head on it. Oh stamps nowadays can't believe. But um we try and send him a a postcard every time because he used to work for English Heritage and he liked getting old buildings. Sometimes he even goes and sees them afterwards, having seen the church.

SPEAKER_03 13:56

Oh well, I hope he comes to visit. And certainly you picked up a lovely postcard of Mancross, so that's good. And what have you most enjoyed about the the church building while you've been here?

SPEAKER_02 14:04

We've enjoyed the bell ringing going round the outside and then actually being able to come onto the inside. And I liked the story about the uh the font. And it certainly is a very strange top to it.

SPEAKER_03 14:15

Yes, the font cover. I have to watch out, I don't bump my head on it when I'm doing a baptism.

SPEAKER_02 14:21

You're just too tall, that's the problem. I think so. It's lovely to meet you anyway. Thanks so much. Thank you very much indeed.

SPEAKER_01 14:28

Well, talking about the font and that gentleman saying about the font and the font cover and the top and everything, but and you were saying about bumping your head, but I I used when I used to carry the cross and we used to

Baptism Font Steps And Canopy

SPEAKER_01 14:40

go to the back for christenings, I was always on edge because, you know, that font being up those two steep steps. Yes. And I always worried with with and I thought, Oh my goodness, you've got to be so careful, haven't you?

SPEAKER_03 14:51

Yes. Yes, it is. I mean it's a lovely, amazing font. It is actually it's awe-inspiring thinking of all the people who've been baptized. But it is up a couple of really quite big steps.

SPEAKER_01 15:01

And they are big steps.

SPEAKER_03 15:02

Yeah, yeah. And then the canopy is beautiful, but it is I was always on edge when it was pretty. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Well, a disaster would be kind of if I banged my head on the canopy and then staggered down the steps and but obviously didn't drop the baby. No quite. Oh, I do. Well, I haven't I think I've slightly bumped my head once. Did you? He certainly enjoyed the uh the front canopy, that visitor, yes, yes. And also sending his postcard to his friend.

SPEAKER_01 15:30

I wonder if the friend will suddenly turn up one day. Yeah, maybe you never know. No. I mean where he didn't say where the friend lived.

SPEAKER_03 15:37

No, no, I don't know, no, no. But um yeah, send me a postcard. Do you do you still send postcards or not? I don't go away now. No, uh no.

SPEAKER_01 15:46

I always used to. Right, yeah, always send postcards.

SPEAKER_03 15:49

Yes, I mean I can remember going each year off for holiday and that and one of the things you did in the first week or early days was um send the postcard, take it. That's right. Safely arrived, having a lovely time, yeah, whatever. No, they get there before you do.

SPEAKER_00 16:02

Exactly, yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_03 16:03

Because if you if you waited till the last day then it would uh wouldn't get back in time, yeah. Yeah, but postage has got rather expensive.

SPEAKER_01 16:10

I think so.

SPEAKER_03 16:11

Yeah, maybe maybe yeah, sending a a quick text or email isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 16:14

I know it was the thing now, isn't it? Nowadays.

SPEAKER_03 16:16

Yeah, although getting a real postcard is still like a yeah, actual real handwriting. Oh, I agree. Hmm. Well, maybe May's a month for postcards, I don't know. I certainly um bumped into someone very interesting on Hay Hill the other day. It was a little group, and um they were doing something called a scavenger hunt. Anyway, well let's listen to the interview I did with him and maybe

Scavenger Hunt Interview On Hay Hill

SPEAKER_03 16:38

we'll discover more.

SPEAKER_01 16:39

Yes, okay.

SPEAKER_03 16:41

Well, I'm here on uh Hay Hill and just outside the church, but I've just bumped into someone who I think has been on doing a scavenger hunt or something. But anyway, what you what do you enjoy about Norwich?

SPEAKER_00 16:51

The architecture, the people, the cul the friendly culture, and most of all the history of it. Yeah, fantastic. Obviously, it's got uh many different cultures and historical backgrounds from uh yeah. So and what exactly is a scavenger hunt? To the for various historical points around Norwich, and then with that to then re-f relay it back to our management to see what we've been up to and what we've discovered. We did, and we obviously met yourself, which was uh fantastic and a pleasure. Well it's lovely to bump into you. And yourself. It's been lovely. Thank you. Okay. Take care.

Imagining A Mancroft Scavenger List

SPEAKER_01 17:25

Well, that's the first time I've heard of a scavenger hunt. And I wonder what he meant about going back to management. Do you think it was a business thing?

SPEAKER_03 17:32

Well, I think I'm guessing, but I think they possibly were work colleagues and um they were maybe having a a kind of day or morning bonding with one another and just having a you know uh I'm I'm I'm guessing slightly. You know, there are things uh sometimes staff teams go and do something adventurous, don't they?

SPEAKER_01 17:46

Like, Oh, that's true, yes.

SPEAKER_03 17:49

Yeah, exactly, yeah. Well w when I left my previous job actually in in Essex, I said, Oh, let's all go on a a day to the seaside and build sandcastles. Um and they all gave me a very funny look as a sort of you know, it wasn't a scavenging, but it was a bonding thing and um and a farewell. And we had a lovely day, yeah, positionships and everything. Yeah, yeah, it was good.

SPEAKER_01 18:09

So what do you think they'd find scavenging if they came around to Peter Manglow?

SPEAKER_03 18:12

Well, yes, what would they find? Well they'd find I mean they'd find things about Sir Thomas Brown, of course. Yeah, yeah. And they'd find well, they'd find graffiti on some of the things. Oh yes, of course they would. They would, yeah. Okay. And um what else can we dream up for them, do you have to?

SPEAKER_01 18:28

I don't know. Well, uh how about the old key?

SPEAKER_03 18:31

Yes, yes, the old key key. Now let's now what's the story of the key, do you think? Perhaps it was the original key that St. Peter Mancroft had in you know, he had his house and maybe a key. And maybe well we could invent a the grave of St. Peter Mancroft as well. So yeah, and he could be the patron saint of keys that get stuck in doors. Have you have you got a key stuck in the door anywhere in your house or not?

SPEAKER_01 18:55

No, I have a big key, but I don't have it stuck in the door.

SPEAKER_03 18:58

It's a huge key, yes. No, I'm pretty sure somewhere, maybe at the vicarage, there is a key that's stuck in the door somewhere. I can't quite remember. Maybe uh maybe a ward mobile or something like that. Not stuck in the door, I haven't stuck in the door. Well, I'm glad we've established that fact that St. Peter Bancroft is the patron saint of keys that get stuck in doors.

Closing Thoughts And Farewell

SPEAKER_03 19:16

Yeah, yeah. Good. Quite right too. Yeah, good. Oh well Judy, it's been um great fun as always to meet up with you. May is a lovely time of year, of course. So um we're gonna enjoy the month, I'm sure. But nonetheless, it will race by in a month's time, no doubt, we will reconvene ready. And thank you all for joining us for for this edition of Bee More Mancroft, and we hope you'll join us again next time. But bye for now.